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Alique
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PostSubject: Political Affiliations   Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:35 am

Curious.

Where do people stand on the political spectrum?

Conservative?
Socialist?
Liberal?
Fascist?
Fundamentalist?
Green?
Communist?
Nationalist?
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PostSubject: Re: Political Affiliations   Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:18 pm

im assuming that ur referring to the UK's political parties...

im not british.. so i cant have my say

but if i was.. id probably go for the Socialists
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PostSubject: Re: Political Affiliations   Sun Aug 05, 2007 6:16 am

No, no parties. Ideology.
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PostSubject: Re: Political Affiliations   Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:57 am

well, which ideaology do u believe in? and why....
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PostSubject: Re: Political Affiliations   Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:16 am

I'm a cynic. I see flaws in all of them Razz

(i'm purposely difficult in life, it's my thing Wink)
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PostSubject: Re: Political Affiliations   Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:41 pm

im pretty sure everyone is aware of the fact that nothing's perfect.... it all boils down to what u believe is best for society.
which brings me to another question... a more interesting question...

Vote BROWN or CAMERON? Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: Political Affiliations   Sun Aug 05, 2007 4:26 pm

Brown's a boring twat and Cameron has no policies...hmmm

To be perfectly honest i don't see myself ever voting again.
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PostSubject: Re: Political Affiliations   Sun Aug 05, 2007 4:28 pm

ahmad193 wrote:
im pretty sure everyone is aware of the fact that nothing's perfect.... it all boils down to what u believe is best for society.
which brings me to another question... a more interesting question...

Vote BROWN or CAMERON? Rolling Eyes

You'd be surprised in how some can become complete zealots when defending their ideology as God's gospel.

Society itself is an interesting concept. Do you believe that there is a society at all or that we are just a bunch of individuals working with others in so far as we can benefit ourselves? Margaret Thatcher once said "there is no such thing as society".
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PostSubject: Re: Political Affiliations   Sun Aug 05, 2007 5:51 pm

am i right in assuming ur studying ( or at least into ) politics?

SOCIETY.. interesting topic

this if the definition off webster:

1 : companionship or association with one's fellows : friendly or intimate intercourse : COMPANY
2 : a voluntary association of individuals for common ends; especially : an organized group working together or periodically meeting because of common interests, beliefs, or profession



personally, i believe that ppl INHERIT their ideology, which is molded by their upbringing/family/environment/friends etc

and reach a stage in their lives when they simply cannot be bothered to think about these things, and just get along with their lives, working, paying the bill, taking care of their kids, etc. and the cycle continues.

i dont believe ppl spend time researching each parties propositions, they don't have enough info to work it out. and even if they did, theres not enough time for that anyway.

pathetic as it may seems.. you end up with ppl voting for the most outgoing/charismatic man/woman..


if u ask me ... society is a bunch of ppl, trying to make a living off each other. each specializing in sometime to help secure himself a job (role) in "society".
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PostSubject: Re: Political Affiliations   Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:01 pm

Yes, it's my 'minor' subject if you are going to go by the American system.

Indeed, but society implies some sort of collective or community...a 'hive' if you will. Which in turn implies that it is more leftist in nature. Here's the direct quote from Maggie herself:

"I think we've been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it's the government's job to cope with it. 'I have a problem, I'll get a grant.' 'I'm homeless, the government must house me.' They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There's no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation."

In which case, society would not exist if it didn't prove useful to the individual. Whereas society is probably considered as continuous, something that is naturally there if you will. I don't think people are necessarily looking for a role in society, it's more a survival instinct. You look for a job for your own financial security, you join the group that you feel will benefit/protect you the most from other groups etc etc.

But i agree with you on voting behaviour. People really don't care unless they're circumstance are massively affected for the worse e.g. tax hikes is something people will generally not vote for. I think if people actually researched party policies they'd all find that by and large, they're pretty much the same for the mainstream options...which is comforting as people know where they stand then but really there's no real options as there is nothing to differentiate them. Thus, all the extreme groups are on the fringe with no real support. People don't want radical change if they are comfortable.

But yeah, i agree people vote usually on the most aesthetically pleasing...probably because it's the only real thing that differentiates the parties.

I think inheriting ideology is tricky...i wouldn't say i've inherited mine...personal experience and environment seem to come into it a lot. If you're born rich, you're going to want to protect that usually and will thus vote 'accordingly'. If you're poor, you're going to vote for some leftists that will help you out with benefits etc etc.
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PostSubject: Re: Political Affiliations   Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:05 pm

by inheriting i meant exactly what u mentioned... you are BORN in a certain environment... under certain circumstances... and you're "raised up" accordingly.

where do u think the future is heading... more wars? or peace? and WHY do u think so..

ask that to ur prof. if u can Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Political Affiliations   Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:20 am

Ah, of course you can inherit your environment. I thought you meant inherit your parent's political leanings.

As for the future? To be quite honest, wars probably, more scarcity of resources etc. I mean, you might say that we're smarter now, have developed some sort of international interdependence and thus war becomes less desirable. But to be perfectly honest, if we had become more civilised over the ages how comes we killed more people in the 20th century than all the previous ones combined?

Humanity has a condition and at the very least things will remain constant imho.
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PostSubject: Re: Political Affiliations   Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:01 am

i agree.. some things never change.. i'd go as far as saying that WAR is in human nature.. fighting (in any form) is something that is as natural to human beings as drinking/eating/sex.

just like technology reached new heights in this era... our moral standards/ethics took quite a plunge.
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PostSubject: Re: Political Affiliations   Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:14 am

I wrote an essay on War being in human nature, i came to the conclusion that it was. To be honest it's the only thing humans are actually good at - killing each other.

The thing with technological 'progress' is that the vast majority of 'civil' technology has spawned from it's original conception of military advancement. Space program - German rocket technology. Medical advancements - the need to save a soldier's life etc etc. There is a certain irony that what has made our lives easier has always stemmed from new and more efficient ways to kill each other.

As for morals, to be quite honest i don't think they have taken a plunge. Throughout the ages people have indulged in debauchery. Religion tried to surpress it, but it was always there. You can see it no more prevalent in the behaviour of rulers throughout time, our leaders supposed to set examples. Then, who sets morals? What are morals? Are they relative? To me they seem like restrictions designed to curb human nature. If you look around the world no 2 cultures have the same morals so who is to say what is right and wrong? Further, you'll see that all humans react the same given a certain situation.
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PostSubject: Re: Political Affiliations   Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:30 am

well.. i believe that everyman strives for perfection in this life.. to reach a goal, whatever it may be.. we cant hide from the fact that we'll only be alive for 50-60 years.. 70-80 if ur lucky.. and during that time, one should ask him/herself what do they want to achieve during that time period.
it may seem like a LONG time when ur still young and naive... but one u come knocking on 30's door, you realize that you've probably lived half ur life already... and ask urself what have you done to show for it... was it well spent? are you happy with yourself?

the saddest thing, imo, is seeing someone at a late stage in his/her life.. living a lie.. living in the past.. oblivious to the fact that it may all be over.

to have a perfect society... u need the core elements to share a common intrest... and thats hardly ever the case in the real world

hence.. why bother?

politics = connections = oppertunities = money = the pursuit of happiness and satisfaction.

do u think thats the "way" to go? live life with one goal, MAKE MONEY, HAVE FUN.. and do a couple of good deeds here and there.

or is it the other way around..
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PostSubject: Re: Political Affiliations   Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:33 pm

Do you think people strive for perfection or for survival?

From what i can tell, you're getting onto more of the question "what is the point in life" i.e. yes, what have you done to show for your life...or, does it even matter if you have anything to show for it? Show who?

Making money is obviously not an ideal way to motivate yourself through life, but to be perfectly honest, without it you'd quite frankly have a poorer quality of life and hinder your chances of survival.
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PostSubject: Re: Political Affiliations   Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:29 pm

but isn't that the ultimate question? the CORE question each and every one of us should ask him/herself?

instead of breezing through life abiding by another agenda, i.e impressing mom&dad, friends, the other sex, etc

like u said, money making isn't the ideal way.. but its a way that more and more ppl are following.

i believe if ppl apprehend the fact that life on this earth is all about legacy, and what better way of exiting the stage of life than with sweet and good memories/deeds that are commemorated by all.
if you can manage to build that in ppl... i think you'll end up with a very prosperous society.
its like a wall... everyone has his/her role, no matter how insignificant it may seem, take away one brick, and the wall weakens.
which brings me to another point.... this "united wall" that religion has tried to build, has been divided into sects/classes, and from what i gather, it doesnt seem like there will be any unity between the sects anytime soon, hence widening the gap between rich/poor... separating the ppl into more parties... different priorities... different agendas
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PostSubject: Re: Political Affiliations   Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:13 pm

To be quite honest people can do as they like as long as it doesn't adversely affect me. They can pursue whatever makes them happy, money, spirituality, I don't really care either way.
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PostSubject: Re: Political Affiliations   Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:56 am

we're all affected by each others actions one way or the other

:milhouse:
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PostSubject: Re: Political Affiliations   Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:52 am

Heh, yeah, in some way i suppose. But y'know, generally speaking i don't feel a need to interfere with other people's lives and i expect the same from them. Of course some actions some where will have waves, but i guess 'directly affect you for the worse' is what i'd like to avoid.
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PostSubject: Re: Political Affiliations   Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:04 am

yeah. we all like some privacy in our lives.

what do u think of the US presidential candidates... any predictions?
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PostSubject: Re: Political Affiliations   Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:26 pm

I'd like to see who runs for the democrats first. It'll probably be Hillary though. Can't see how any of them could be as incompetent as Bush. What do you think?
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PostSubject: Re: Political Affiliations   Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:41 am

I dunno.. Im not expecting them to pull out of iraq or stop this crazy war.. i dont think the prez calls the shots.. rather, just makes excuses for what his generals/politicians want.

but whatever happens.. i hope things calm down.. im sick of waking up and watching depressing news everyday.
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PostSubject: Re: Political Affiliations   Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:00 am

ok, allique. I had to answer to some of the points you made in this thread.

i would agree firstly that war is somewhat intertwined with human nature. But i think this is due in majority, to the fact that men were once a prey to fauna in general, and only through communal associations could they protect themselves. So to feel that ancestral security, it has kept the need to gather in group and lose its naive identity, to its reflexive identity, and become one with its nation basically. We call this usually the drunkness of war or something of the sort ( i speak french).

I find it funny that you didnt answer the topic you, yourself opened. A cynic isnt really a realist. Wich is what all or atleast most political analyst should thrive for.

To answer your question, it depends on the state at hand, different situations, calls for different systems.

In an advanced economy/democracy, id say social democratism takes the cake.
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PostSubject: Re: Political Affiliations   Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:02 am

thats exactly what i was gonna say homer
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